Scotland in Focus: Joe Fitzpatrick MSP Dundee West

We were very happy to talk to Joe Fitzpatrick MSP for Dundee West.  His office contacted us after our Editorial and Killer Instinct articles about videogame violence.

The meeting took place in the Scottish Parliament and Joe was happy to talk about that subject, tax relief and other subjects.

How do you feel we can address the issue parents buying children videogames which are classified over their age range?

Joe Fitzpatrick: The first thing we need to do is ask the UK government to enact the Pan European Game Information (PEGI) classification system because I think that will give clarity. Parents don't view games certification with the same rigidity that they view the certificates for videos and films. We need to get to the point where if it's classified as 18 then that's how old you should be and a twelve year old child shouldn't be playing it.

Obviously most games are not classified as 18 or over, most games are appropriate for parents to buy for their kids and they generally have a good educational quality to them. For that three percent of games that are classified as 18+ parents should be given extra assistance to ensure that their kids aren't playing those games.

Should anything be done concerning how the shops sell the games?

JF: The regulations that currently exist for DVDs and BluRays is at the right level so that a shop knows that they would be in contravention of the law if they were to sell inappropriately. That's probably the correct way forward but it does require the UK government to enact the PEGI classification.

Do you feel one of the reasons the videogame industry receives so much flack is because it is still such a fresh industry in the public eye?

JF: It certainly is a new industry and one of the things I've been trying to do as MSP for Dundee West is highlight the use of that industry to Scotland. If people highlight that industry then they should make sure that any research they do is as up to date as possible. That's why I was particularly concerned about the motion that came forward.

I didn't see it particularly as an attack on the games industry but I don't think it was based on the latest information and facts.

Now we see videogames being blamed for rickets which in my eyes would have more to do with bad parenting than with the industry. Do you have anything to say on this subject?

JF: Nobody would say that a child should be spending 24 hours a day indoors in front of a screen playing games. That's clearly not the correct way to go and as part of a balanced lifestyle which includes exercise outdoors then I don't think there's a problem with children playing computer games and in fact, as I said, most games which are targeted at young people have pretty high educational content to them. The kids might not realise that they're learning things but they are learning things.

Do you feel that the battle is already lost when you get a headline on the front page of some press or do you feel that people pay attention to the research and counter arguments?

JF: It's important that we respond to any of these attacks and get the facts out there. I've certainly been trying to make members of the Scottish Parliament aware of the importance of the industry and some of the facts behind this particular issue and I think most MSPs have been listening.

Clearly there is a problem with some inappropriate access to 18+ computer games and we need to address that but a carte blanche attack on the computer games industry is no the way forward.

Obviously you're the MSP for Dundee West but how did you become aware of videogames and the industry?

JF: I have always had consoles in my house - from the ZX Spectrum that I think every single household in Dundee had at one point! These days though I'm not particularly the best player, I'll leave that to the others in my house.

My current interest in the games industry comes from being the MSP for Dundee West where a high proportion of Scotland's game industry is based. It's a particularly important industry to Dundee and it's a growing industry. We have companies in Dundee employing graduates at a time when they are finding it increasingly difficult to get jobs.

I am also a graduate of Abertay University which has been leading the way in terms of the development of graduate courses in computer games working in partnership with Realtime Worlds and other companies in Dundee.

Do you feel that Edinburgh and Glasgow providing similar types of courses are developing a healthy spread across Scotland?

JF: Yes I think it's particularly good for Scotland that Glasgow, Dundee and Edinburgh, are all relatively close and so by having an industry that covers more of Scotland they're still going to be close enough to ensure that they are getting that special buzz that's difficult to get elsewhere in the UK from members of the games industry working together, bouncing ideas off each other and even though their business working against each other as well they generate a really healthy competition in Scotland which is good for the industry everywhere.

Just recently we had money coming into Abertay but initially the proposals were for the funding all to go to Salford. Without making this an English/Scottish debate what were your thoughts?

JF: Obviously when we heard of the UK governments proposals for Salford [Manchester] we were concerned that was a direct threat to what was happening in Abertay University but Abertay managed to turn that around and a partnership between Salford and Abertay is going to benefit both sides and that can only be a good thing.

I can on say "well done" to Abertay for turning what was a potential threat into a real advantage for Dundee.

You're looking to create a cross party group across the Scottish Parliament. Could you discuss that more?

JF: As MSPs we need to look at what we can do to help industry and so I would see the cross party group doing two things:

Firstly to make sure that the games industry has a presence within the Scottish Parliament so that is someone has an issue then they can make contact with the industry on that particular issue.

Secondly so we as politicians can hear first hand if there's any way that we can work to assist the industry in growing.

Digital media as a whole will grow over the coming years the question is whether Scotland gets our slice of that cake and I'm determined that we do. A cross party group will ensure that we as politicians can do whatever we can to make that happen.

TIGA obviously help. Can you elaborate?

JF: TIGA are aware of the high concentration of game companies based in my constituency in Dundee so we've had a really good relationship with them helping pull together games companies and the University of Abertay. They've also helped in a number of meetings in the Parliament where we have showcased the computer games industry to MSPs and TIGA have been really helpful in making this happen.

NESTA are a UK wide body with an office in Dundee. They have a larger remit than TIGA but they also can see the importance of the computer games industry and so they have been very, very supportive as well.

Are you getting support from the other parties in the Scottish Parliament?

JF: Yes. Any events we've held have been attended by members of all political parties and I think there's an increasing realisation that this is one sector that's going to grow in Scotland so they recognise how important it is to cross the political boundaries.

Because Scotland is tied into UK economics at this time how much leverage do you feel that this group or the Scottish Parliament can put on the UK government?

JF: There's obviously some aspects of the policies concerning computer games that we don't have control over for instance we're pretty clear in the SNP that we should have a more favourable tax regime so that Scotland's computer games industry can compete on a level playing field with the likes of Canada and France but we don't have the power to do that just now.

There are other things which are within our remit and we have to make sure that we're not putting any blockades in the way of the development of this industry.

Are you getting support in the UK House of Commons?

JF: Well I'm aware that there's a cross party group concerned with computer games at a UK level and we're certainly moving to make contact with them. This ensures that we're working together on an issue especially those issues that relate to UK legislation.

Speaking politically how would devolution impact on tax relief for games companies?

JF: There are three main scenarios for Scotland's constitutional status on the table just now.

One is the status quo which leaves Scotland with no tax raising powers or borrowing powers.

The situation the SNP supports would be full independence where all the decisions are made in Scotland.

The third position would be considered as devolution max where most of the tax raising powers would come to Scotland. That's the general view of the Labour and Liberal parties but they haven't finalised their view as to how much of the tax raising powers would move to Scotland under this method.

We certainly support all the powers coming to Scotland and whether the labour and liberal parties support the corporation tax coming to Scotland is not yet clear.

Can you emphasise the advantage to Scotland if those powers come here.

JF: The more powers we have in Scotland the more we can make sure that the tax regime is more responsive to Scotland's needs and this is somewhere in particular the games industry is disproportionately important to Scotland's economy as compared to the UK economy as a whole.

I think it would be pretty easy to argue that within a Scottish context for the tax breaks to the UK games industry.

Is there anything you want to say about the smaller members of the industry in Scotland?

JF: Certainly the companies I've met in both Dundee and elsewhere, companies who consist of two members of staff producing games for mobile phones etc. These are important industries and if you add them all together they employ a lot of people across Scotland so I do feel we need to recognise the whole breadth of the industry.

One of the things I've been really pleased about is any time I've been speaking to the industry from the largest to the smallest they've talked about the whole spectrum of companies. So they're not just interested in themselves they're interested in the smaller and bigger fish in the industry and that's a really good thing to see, an industry working together for the benefit of all.

Do you see positive things coming in the future?

JF: I think so. The industry is obviously growing and it's now overtaken the DVD industry and I can't see that changing particularly. We need to make sure that we get as large a slice of that market as possible.

We've got most of the correct infrastructure in place but we need to get the tax regime there because at the end of the day a business has to look at the bottom line and if that bottom line is in a different country that can be challenging, particularly for some of the bigger companies.

Anything else you'd like to say?

JF: In terms of the motion that Elaine [Smith] put down. I understand what she was saying but I don't' think she delivered it in quite the right way.

SquareGo would like to thank Joe Fitzpatrick for his time and are happy to speak to any other MSP's concerning the subject of the videogames industry in Scotland.